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Drug Testing and Civil Rights
#1
Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?
 
Reply
#2
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.
I am not an attorney.Anything I write should not be considered legal advice.I am writing from my own personal experiences,which is not from any sort of legal background. You should consult with an attorney over legal issues. In California, if you cannot get an attorney you can consult with an I&A officer.
 
Reply
#3
(06-21-2017, 09:35 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.

Not prescribed any pain meds ..never was . Never had a positive drug test either. I have the absolute worst luck They are saying I must drug test period period regardless .. I say no way ..there is no meds approved . Yes I signed a contract that's very questionable so I revoked it . I don't give away my rights for no reason ..No one should .

Ur approves nothing ..cant take away anything Smile One big drug test for nothing .. I hope they are stupid enough to term the relationship. They are saying no drug test ..no care regardless ..Yea that's probably a civil rights violation and way out of the scope of the contract anyway ..the contract for non existing pain meds.

When pointing out the inconsistencies of course the medical encounter ended real quick .
 
Reply
#4
(06-21-2017, 10:21 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 09:35 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.

Not prescribed any pain meds ..never was . Never had a positive drug test either. I have the absolute worst luck They are saying I must drug test period period regardless .. I say no way ..there is no meds approved . Yes I signed a contract that's very questionable so I revoked it . I don't give away my rights for no reason ..No one should .

Ur approves nothing ..cant take away anything Smile One big drug test for nothing .. I hope they are stupid enough to term the relationship. They are saying no drug test ..no care regardless ..Yea that's probably a civil rights violation and way out of the scope of the contract anyway ..the contract for non existing pain meds.

I wish you would have written that the first time....would have saved me a lot of typing lol Wink

Umm they are asking you to submit to drug testing and you are not prescribed any medications from anyone? Never heard of this before, actually heard of it then the patient explained it to the doctor and then the doctor told his staff to knock it off. Is the doctor aware of this? If so I think it is a little odd. Don't know why the heck your claims adjuster would want to pay for it as they can be around $115. You can change doctors if you want. Are you receiving any type of treatment from this doctor?
I am not an attorney.Anything I write should not be considered legal advice.I am writing from my own personal experiences,which is not from any sort of legal background. You should consult with an attorney over legal issues. In California, if you cannot get an attorney you can consult with an I&A officer.
 
Reply
#5
(06-21-2017, 10:48 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 10:21 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 09:35 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.

Not prescribed any pain meds ..never was . Never had a positive drug test either. I have the absolute worst luck They are saying I must drug test period period regardless .. I say no way ..there is no meds approved . Yes I signed a contract that's very questionable so I revoked it . I don't give away my rights for no reason ..No one should .

Ur approves nothing ..cant take away anything Smile One big drug test for nothing .. I hope they are stupid enough to term the relationship. They are saying no drug test ..no care regardless ..Yea that's probably a civil rights violation and way out of the scope of the contract anyway ..the contract for non existing pain meds.

I wish you would have written that the first time....would have saved me a lot of typing lol Wink

Umm they are asking you to submit to drug testing and you are not prescribed any medications from anyone? Never heard of this before, actually heard of it then the patient explained it to the doctor and then the doctor told his staff to knock it off. Is the doctor aware of this? If so I think it is a little odd. Don't know why the heck your claims adjuster would want to pay for it as they can be around $115. You can change doctors if you want. Are you receiving any type of treatment from this doctor?
Accupuncture is scheduled .. I asked to return to my Ortho .. They didn't like that . After they said you must drug test , I think I'm done. I would guess an adjuster would love for people to fail a drug test . I dunno .  Maybe they can run with that .. What a sham .. drug test contract for non existing pain meds. When I said I think that's a violation of my Civil Right.. you could hear a pin drop . I do believe  that .Makes me wonder how many people failed a drug test that were never really obligated to provide a sample to begin with because they signed a contract and received the test but not the drug ... LOL . Unreal !
 
Reply
#6
(06-21-2017, 10:48 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 10:21 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 09:35 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.

Not prescribed any pain meds ..never was . Never had a positive drug test either. I have the absolute worst luck They are saying I must drug test period period regardless .. I say no way ..there is no meds approved . Yes I signed a contract that's very questionable so I revoked it . I don't give away my rights for no reason ..No one should .

Ur approves nothing ..cant take away anything Smile One big drug test for nothing .. I hope they are stupid enough to term the relationship. They are saying no drug test ..no care regardless ..Yea that's probably a civil rights violation and way out of the scope of the contract anyway ..the contract for non existing pain meds.

I wish you would have written that the first time....would have saved me a lot of typing lol Wink

Umm they are asking you to submit to drug testing and you are not prescribed any medications from anyone? Never heard of this before, actually heard of it then the patient explained it to the doctor and then the doctor told his staff to knock it off. Is the doctor aware of this? If so I think it is a little odd. Don't know why the heck your claims adjuster would want to pay for it as they can be around $115. You can change doctors if you want. Are you receiving any type of treatment from this doctor?
Accupuncture is scheduled .. I asked to return to my Ortho .. They didn't like that . After they said you must drug test , I think I'm done. I would guess an adjuster would love for people to fail a drug test . I dunno .  Maybe they can run with that .. What a sham .. drug test contract for non existing pain meds. When I said I think that's a violation of my Civil Right.. you could hear a pin drop . I do believe  that .Makes me wonder how many people failed a drug test that were never really obligated to provide a sample to begin with because they signed a contract and received the test but not the drug ... LOL . Unreal !

Involuntary or Coercive drug testing must be illegal ? I run into some really crazy things in my journey.
 
Reply
#7
(06-21-2017, 11:25 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 10:48 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 10:21 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 09:35 PM)California_Help Wrote:
(06-21-2017, 07:17 PM)Shadow Wrote: Hi Folks 

California Claim

I signed a pain management contract some time back and agreed to drug testing .. People sign these every day.

The PM facility is completely unwilling or unable to uphold the terms and condition of this contract ...Ok no problem.

I explained that given the circumstances ( a bit complicated )  that I am revoking the agreement effective immediately. 

I was told that regardless I am required to drug test per the office policy .. I stated I believe that was a violation of my Civil rights. I am treating under an FMC and not legally required to consent.

Any thoughts? .I guess now in order to access MPN care we must forgo our Civil Rights ?

Never read any laws in California that drug testing a patient is against their civil rights when they are being prescribed pain medications. Do you have a link?

Some comments, just from me (obviously not an expert):

1.Many pain management doctors drug test if it is a work comp patient or a private insurance etc. This is not a work comp thing, this is common practice for physicians who are prescribing opioids and other pain medications. It is to protect the patient and the doctor (IMO).

2. There are medical treatment guidelines in workers compensation and there are some that are used to deny patients medication based upon not signing a pain management contract and not having a drug test within a certain amount of time. Refusing pain medication contract may give UR the ammo to deny your medications. I have read UR denials based upon "doctor has not shown patient has signed pain contract"or "there is no evidence of recent urine screen". Yep they/UR can screw with your medications over this, just FYI. Maybe it will not happen to you but it has happened to others.

3.You as a patient can be a liability to the doctor if they are prescribing you medications and they stop drug testing you and something ends up happening to you. It will be the doctors arse if that happens. If you have read national news lately there is a LOT of fuss over the opioid epidemic in the US, and one thing I do not see right now is a physician lowering their standards on this. Trump is all over it too and I can see a lot of physicians being pressured into cutting down and cutting off medications prescribed. This is good for those patients who are abusing it. It is bad for the patients who take their medications responsibly and who really need such pain control. There are new treatment guidelines coming for CA work comp.

4. If you choose not to abide by your physicians pain contract, he may have the right to refuse treatment (not sure) or request you treat with someone else. You can ask an I&A officer about this.

I am also aware drug testing in the workers compensation system can be overly done and a billing scam.
Does your doctor test you on EVERY office visit? I do not understand how your physicians office is not abiding by the contract? It is difficult to give a response without knowing all the details.

Not prescribed any pain meds ..never was . Never had a positive drug test either. I have the absolute worst luck They are saying I must drug test period period regardless .. I say no way ..there is no meds approved . Yes I signed a contract that's very questionable so I revoked it . I don't give away my rights for no reason ..No one should .

Ur approves nothing ..cant take away anything Smile One big drug test for nothing .. I hope they are stupid enough to term the relationship. They are saying no drug test ..no care regardless ..Yea that's probably a civil rights violation and way out of the scope of the contract anyway ..the contract for non existing pain meds.

I wish you would have written that the first time....would have saved me a lot of typing lol Wink

Umm they are asking you to submit to drug testing and you are not prescribed any medications from anyone? Never heard of this before, actually heard of it then the patient explained it to the doctor and then the doctor told his staff to knock it off. Is the doctor aware of this? If so I think it is a little odd. Don't know why the heck your claims adjuster would want to pay for it as they can be around $115. You can change doctors if you want. Are you receiving any type of treatment from this doctor?
Accupuncture is scheduled .. I asked to return to my Ortho .. They didn't like that . After they said you must drug test , I think I'm done. I would guess an adjuster would love for people to fail a drug test . I dunno .  Maybe they can run with that .. What a sham .. drug test contract for non existing pain meds. When I said I think that's a violation of my Civil Right.. you could hear a pin drop . I do believe  that .Makes me wonder how many people failed a drug test that were never really obligated to provide a sample to begin with because they signed a contract and received the test but not the drug ... LOL . Unreal !

Involuntary or Coercive drug  testing must be illegal ? I run into some really crazy things in my journey.
Was this an office staff worker asking for it? If so I recommend discussing this with the doctor and your concerns. As I wrote above I have seen this, and it was due to an incompetent office staff worker, and the doctor corrected it.

I have never read your physician cannot request a drug test under your civil rights. If you find some info let me know. Is there a reason why he does not want you to see this ortho surgeon? Sometimes good doctors do not want to see their patients get evasive operations. I do not think a claims adjuster would want to pay for urine screen for someone who is not taking medications, but who knows. You can change pain management doctors at any time if you do not trust him.
I am not an attorney.Anything I write should not be considered legal advice.I am writing from my own personal experiences,which is not from any sort of legal background. You should consult with an attorney over legal issues. In California, if you cannot get an attorney you can consult with an I&A officer.
 
Reply
#8
I've had staff at my pain management doctor's office ask me for a drug test not knowing that I wasn't taking anything, once I explained to them that I wasn't on anything, it was no problem.
If they are insisting you take a drug test knowing you are not taking pain medication then maybe the doctor's office is trying to scam the insurer.
 
Reply
#9
I agree with Kev_b....either incompetent office staff or billing scam. My guess incompetent office staff IF I had to bet on itWink I really do not think your claims adjuster would want to pay for it and waste paying for a urine screen when you are not taking any medications. I suggest discussing this with your doctor.
I am not an attorney.Anything I write should not be considered legal advice.I am writing from my own personal experiences,which is not from any sort of legal background. You should consult with an attorney over legal issues. In California, if you cannot get an attorney you can consult with an I&A officer.
 
Reply
#10
(06-22-2017, 04:11 PM)California_Help Wrote: I agree with Kev_b....either incompetent office staff or billing scam. My guess incompetent office staff IF I had to bet on itWink I really do not think your claims adjuster would want to pay for it and waste paying for a urine screen when you are not taking any medications. I suggest discussing this with your doctor.

Thanks folks for the taking the time. I don't know what to think . I did read that drug testing has become a major cost driver in WC ..

When I was told that although I revoked an unnecessary PM drug testing agreement , I still am subject to drug testing . I was in utter disbelief. I am still in disbelief today.

It's really weird because it's like they use this as a tool knowing that the patient is not going to receive the Medications, and now you are subjected to this " search " .

For me ..once meds are approved then we can go from there .. Whats next ? Search the claimants car for open containers Smile I have nothing to hide either and keep providing unnecessary samples . It did cross my mind .who is paying for this ? Finally I said no ! This is BS.

I believe in the Constitution and such . I know this story is crazy but true Smile
 
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