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Surveillance info.
#1
I have been lurking this site for info for a while, wife has a WC claim. She is 4 years in and in settlement phase (finally). IC is a big self-insured retail store and the way they have treated her is borderline criminal. I have gotten some good info off this site and feel I should give back. As of a year ago I stopped doing WC surveillance work after seeing the claimant side of the WC system with my wife. I have over 17 years of WC surveillance experience, been licensed as a PI for 13 of those years. I have worked for numerous investigation companies, state wide and nation wide, as well as numerous insurance carriers. I am in Ca. and I know the laws regarding surveillance differ from state to state but the techniques are the same. Fortunately with my background I am able to work in a different unrelated field now and will never do any WC comp work again. I have no desire to ever help an IC again in anyway, no matter how much money can be made. Having said all that I would love to answer any questions anyone has regarding WC surveillance, tricks used, techniques, how to spot an investigator, what they look for, what happens if your videotaped, etc. etc. I have seen older posts about PI's and questions about the topic. For what its worth I was not one of the shady and unethical PI's discussed in topics on this site. My work was honest and discreet. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in my profession who give the rest of us a black eye which can be said about most professions as well. Please feel free to ask my any questions and I will answer them the best I can. I will check the site daily and might need some time to answer. Anyone who has a legitimate injury/claim should not be treated the way you have all described in your posts. Like I said, I would love to give back and share my knowledge. This is my first thread/post so I apologize if I did anything wrong and or it posted wrong.
 
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#2
Welcome,

I'm sure your post has raised a few eyebrows. But welcome and if we can assist you in any way post away.

Alot of us here have had problems with PI's thru work comp. I live in a small town and it's easy to get the chief of police to run off the PI that was following me on and off for 5 days. The funniest event was when respondent was stupid enough to show a photo to my lawyer taken by a PI, that wasn't even me. It was my neighbor, I'm 5'3" 116lbs, she's 5'11 and weighs over 200lbs.

Sorry for the troubles that your wife has gone thru, we all have our nightmare stories. People in prison get better care than we do usually.

But welcome, look forward to your posts and once again, if we can be of assistance just let us know.
bodybuilder1958
 
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#3
(05-09-2012, 01:10 PM)(EX)surveillanceInvestigator Wrote: I have been lurking this site for info for a while, wife has a WC claim. She is 4 years in and in settlement phase (finally). IC is a big self-insured retail store and the way they have treated her is borderline criminal. I have gotten some good info off this site and feel I should give back. As of a year ago I stopped doing WC surveillance work after seeing the claimant side of the WC system with my wife. I have over 17 years of WC surveillance experience, been licensed as a PI for 13 of those years. I have worked for numerous investigation companies, state wide and nation wide, as well as numerous insurance carriers. I am in Ca. and I know the laws regarding surveillance differ from state to state but the techniques are the same. Fortunately with my background I am able to work in a different unrelated field now and will never do any WC comp work again. I have no desire to ever help an IC again in anyway, no matter how much money can be made. Having said all that I would love to answer any questions anyone has regarding WC surveillance, tricks used, techniques, how to spot an investigator, what they look for, what happens if your videotaped, etc. etc. I have seen older posts about PI's and questions about the topic. For what its worth I was not one of the shady and unethical PI's discussed in topics on this site. My work was honest and discreet. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in my profession who give the rest of us a black eye which can be said about most professions as well. Please feel free to ask my any questions and I will answer them the best I can. I will check the site daily and might need some time to answer. Anyone who has a legitimate injury/claim should not be treated the way you have all described in your posts. Like I said, I would love to give back and share my knowledge. This is my first thread/post so I apologize if I did anything wrong and or it posted wrong.


I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.
I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.
 
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#4
(05-09-2012, 02:16 PM)bodybuilder1958 Wrote: Welcome,

I'm sure your post has raised a few eyebrows. But welcome and if we can assist you in any way post away.

Alot of us here have had problems with PI's thru work comp. I live in a small town and it's easy to get the chief of police to run off the PI that was following me on and off for 5 days. The funniest event was when respondent was stupid enough to show a photo to my lawyer taken by a PI, that wasn't even me. It was my neighbor, I'm 5'3" 116lbs, she's 5'11 and weighs over 200lbs.

Sorry for the troubles that your wife has gone thru, we all have our nightmare stories. People in prison get better care than we do usually.

But welcome, look forward to your posts and once again, if we can be of assistance just let us know.
bodybuilder1958

Thanks. Ya I am sure my post is out of the norm but I am sincere in my offer to answer any questions. I can understand if people are caught off guard by someone of my background posting a thread like this. The past few years the industry has really changed here in Ca. and I am sure other states as well. Basic counter surveillance info can be found on line but I can offer insight from the IC side of how surveillance is used, what makes video vaulable/worthless, what protocols investigators in an IC vendor panel have to follow, etc.
 
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#5
Did you see many "fakers"? If so, what was the most common sign of faking and/or what was the #1 find while you were filming a IW?

I was in the WC "Arena" for 8+ years. I never caught anyone spying on me and I was looking "diligently"

It would be a pain in the butt to try and set up surveillance where I live. I am deep in the country and live down a one way road. If the PI tried to hide in the woods, He could get eat up with red bugs,chiggers,ticks and Dogs in the spring/summer months.

In the winter, the woods become real open meaning it was easy to see someone lurking.

If he followed me, I do not know where he could have hidden where no one down this road would ever see him; We do not take kindly to strangers trolling; someone would have said there is a stranger in our mist.

My Attorney told me there was about a 95% chance that I had been followed. Obviously, They found nothing but I will say if they did film/follow me, They were damn good.

How would you have filmed me living in the environment I live in?
 
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#6
they used a critter cam.
that buck you thought you saw on that doe was a PI in rut!
the pictures were so blurry they were unusable.

Smile

Reminder :
........Each state has their own comp system; POST YOUR STATE to get accurate information. Use the search feature to find information from similar questions.
THANKS FOR POSTING.
 
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#7
(05-09-2012, 09:00 PM)1171 Wrote: they used a critter cam.
that buck you thought you saw on that doe was a PI in rut!
the pictures were so blurry they were unusable.

Smile

That is quite possible in the months of Nov and Dec. LOLBig Grin

We have a abundant amount of whitetail Deer and I live in the middle of it; Hunting is a big Sport here.

 
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#8
Very intresting thread, I would like to hear maybe of some past cases. Like, what would be a top priority that they would have you surveillance some one. How often did you video tape fraud injuries and do they over weigh real injuries... Do they really use aircraft to spy on injured people.........lol... But seriously, I find this important to share, but at the same time I am skeptical of the outcome... In our little world here trust is earned and not given lightly..

With that said, I'm up for it and want to say welcome to the forum and sorry your wife had to go through the wc hell path........Bronco
 
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#9
Why dont you just offer up the info ? why wait fo someone to ask a question ? If you want to give back like you say just give a nice write up about everything you would do when investigating an IW, Like tricks and tactics used... from begining to end........
 
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#10
(05-09-2012, 07:00 PM)lucky Wrote: Did you see many "fakers"? If so, what was the most common sign of faking and/or what was the #1 find while you were filming a IW?

I was in the WC "Arena" for 8+ years. I never caught anyone spying on me and I was looking "diligently"

It would be a pain in the butt to try and set up surveillance where I live. I am deep in the country and live down a one way road. If the PI tried to hide in the woods, He could get eat up with red bugs,chiggers,ticks and Dogs in the spring/summer months.

In the winter, the woods become real open meaning it was easy to see someone lurking.

If he followed me, I do not know where he could have hidden where no one down this road would ever see him; We do not take kindly to strangers trolling; someone would have said there is a stranger in our mist.

My Attorney told me there was about a 95% chance that I had been followed. Obviously, They found nothing but I will say if they did film/follow me, They were damn good.

How would you have filmed me living in the environment I live in?

Ya open rural areas are difficult. People get creative and I guess someone could always get out on foot to get a view of you on your property but that is very unlikely. Way to risky and run into the issue of being on private property, or worse get a gun pointed at them from a land owner. Most of the time a good investigator would set up what is called a "choke point" position. If they had your vehicle info they would park in an area along the route you would most likely take into town, or even at the entrance of town. I really doubt they got video of you on your property if you live in an area like you described. I guess there is the possibility an investigator could have asked for permission from a neighbor but not many people would be down with that. The most probable scenario would be that you were located and followed coming/going from a medical appointment (medical pick up), deposition or a hearing. There are a lot of investigators who just don't care and will park anywhere but like you said they would have been noticed. Clients always want a clean face shot known as an I.D. shot or the video is pretty much worthless. Each day when I shot video I always would get a close face shot at some point if I could. sounds like that would have been almost impossible in your area, video from a long distance maybe, close enough to get an I.D. shot, no way. Video cameras have zoom but quality goes way down once zoom is switched from optical zoom to digital.
(05-09-2012, 10:02 PM)Inpian Wrote: Why dont you just offer up the info ? why wait fo someone to ask a question ? If you want to give back like you say just give a nice write up about everything you would do when investigating an IW, Like tricks and tactics used... from begining to end........

Because I would write a long post. Ask me some questions, who is your carrier? I have worked for a lot of big I.C.'s and might be able to tell you how they operate when it comes down to surveillance. Each case is different, at least for me when I was working. Depends on where you live, what info I had, etc. Narrow it down for me and I will give back.
(05-09-2012, 02:56 PM)norma Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 01:10 PM)(EX)surveillanceInvestigator Wrote: I have been lurking this site for info for a while, wife has a WC claim. She is 4 years in and in settlement phase (finally). IC is a big self-insured retail store and the way they have treated her is borderline criminal. I have gotten some good info off this site and feel I should give back. As of a year ago I stopped doing WC surveillance work after seeing the claimant side of the WC system with my wife. I have over 17 years of WC surveillance experience, been licensed as a PI for 13 of those years. I have worked for numerous investigation companies, state wide and nation wide, as well as numerous insurance carriers. I am in Ca. and I know the laws regarding surveillance differ from state to state but the techniques are the same. Fortunately with my background I am able to work in a different unrelated field now and will never do any WC comp work again. I have no desire to ever help an IC again in anyway, no matter how much money can be made. Having said all that I would love to answer any questions anyone has regarding WC surveillance, tricks used, techniques, how to spot an investigator, what they look for, what happens if your videotaped, etc. etc. I have seen older posts about PI's and questions about the topic. For what its worth I was not one of the shady and unethical PI's discussed in topics on this site. My work was honest and discreet. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in my profession who give the rest of us a black eye which can be said about most professions as well. Please feel free to ask my any questions and I will answer them the best I can. I will check the site daily and might need some time to answer. Anyone who has a legitimate injury/claim should not be treated the way you have all described in your posts. Like I said, I would love to give back and share my knowledge. This is my first thread/post so I apologize if I did anything wrong and or it posted wrong.


I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.
I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.

Well now that you burned them the game has changed. For one I wouldn't have parked right across the street. I would only do so when I knew it was safe or worth taking heat from neighbors or the claimant. I.C.'s are getting tighter with spending money but if they really want video they could authorize 2 investigators to follow you, one to see you leave and one to follow. Expect to be followed from your up coming hearing. Easy to blend in parking lots. Next time you know they are on you stay home and chill. Let them sit in their vehicle and spend the carriers money. That's what my wife will do if we notice someone on our street. That way you know their vehicle. If they don't think they are burned they will keep using the same surveillance vehicle. Every time you see the vehicle you know they are there. Like I said, let them sit there and write a report that you did absolutely nothing. But as long as you tell your doctor all that you do and are not active beyond your restrictions then video is no big deal. If it were me I'd rather not be taped and would just chill at home. Most carriers now require investigators to prove your home at their 4 hour mark. In this day and age its a lame idea unless it's a last option. Having said that carriers don't care so investigators will try pre-texts by phone, door knock at your door or speak with neighbors. If they can prove your home by any of the above methods then they can work a full 8 hrs or more, if not 4 hr mark is it and they lose money. I have heard of big city guys using wireless cameras and or self-contained covert systems set up at or near an entrance of an apartment building. Sounds like the guy you burned was/is dumb. Maybe they use the same guy and he uses a different car next time and you burn him again.
(05-09-2012, 02:56 PM)norma Wrote:
(05-09-2012, 01:10 PM)(EX)surveillanceInvestigator Wrote: I have been lurking this site for info for a while, wife has a WC claim. She is 4 years in and in settlement phase (finally). IC is a big self-insured retail store and the way they have treated her is borderline criminal. I have gotten some good info off this site and feel I should give back. As of a year ago I stopped doing WC surveillance work after seeing the claimant side of the WC system with my wife. I have over 17 years of WC surveillance experience, been licensed as a PI for 13 of those years. I have worked for numerous investigation companies, state wide and nation wide, as well as numerous insurance carriers. I am in Ca. and I know the laws regarding surveillance differ from state to state but the techniques are the same. Fortunately with my background I am able to work in a different unrelated field now and will never do any WC comp work again. I have no desire to ever help an IC again in anyway, no matter how much money can be made. Having said all that I would love to answer any questions anyone has regarding WC surveillance, tricks used, techniques, how to spot an investigator, what they look for, what happens if your videotaped, etc. etc. I have seen older posts about PI's and questions about the topic. For what its worth I was not one of the shady and unethical PI's discussed in topics on this site. My work was honest and discreet. Unfortunately there are a lot of idiots in my profession who give the rest of us a black eye which can be said about most professions as well. Please feel free to ask my any questions and I will answer them the best I can. I will check the site daily and might need some time to answer. Anyone who has a legitimate injury/claim should not be treated the way you have all described in your posts. Like I said, I would love to give back and share my knowledge. This is my first thread/post so I apologize if I did anything wrong and or it posted wrong.


I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.
I am from N.Y. and been on w/c for 3 yrs and finally my case is comming to a close. The whole time i have been out P.I's have been watching me on and off, and they are not even good at it if i know they are watching me, they sit right across the street or on the side of my house, i even called the cops one time on them, and the cops confirmed that they are watching me because i am on w/c. I have a settlement hearing at the beginning of june so what kind of tricks will they try and do know.

Well now that you burned them the game has changed. For one I wouldn't have parked right across the street. I would only do so when I knew it was safe or worth taking heat from neighbors or the claimant. I.C.'s are getting tighter with spending money but if they really want video they could authorize 2 investigators to follow you, one to see you leave and one to follow. Expect to be followed from your up coming hearing. Easy to blend in parking lots. Next time you know they are on you stay home and chill. Let them sit in their vehicle and spend the carriers money. That's what my wife will do if we notice someone on our street. That way you know their vehicle. If they don't think they are burned they will keep using the same surveillance vehicle. Every time you see the vehicle you know they are there. Like I said, let them sit there and write a report that you did absolutely nothing. But as long as you tell your doctor all that you do and are not active beyond your restrictions then video is no big deal. If it were me I'd rather not be taped and would just chill at home. Most carriers now require investigators to prove your home at their 4 hour mark. In this day and age its a lame idea unless it's a last option. Having said that carriers don't care so investigators will try pre-texts by phone, door knock at your door or speak with neighbors. If they can prove your home by any of the above methods then they can work a full 8 hrs or more, if not 4 hr mark is it and they lose money. I have heard of big city guys using wireless cameras and or self-contained covert systems set up at or near an entrance of an apartment building. Sounds like the guy you burned was/is dumb. Maybe they use the same guy and he uses a different car next time and you burn him again.
(05-09-2012, 07:00 PM)lucky Wrote: Did you see many "fakers"? If so, what was the most common sign of faking and/or what was the #1 find while you were filming a IW?

I was in the WC "Arena" for 8+ years. I never caught anyone spying on me and I was looking "diligently"

It would be a pain in the butt to try and set up surveillance where I live. I am deep in the country and live down a one way road. If the PI tried to hide in the woods, He could get eat up with red bugs,chiggers,ticks and Dogs in the spring/summer months.

In the winter, the woods become real open meaning it was easy to see someone lurking.

If he followed me, I do not know where he could have hidden where no one down this road would ever see him; We do not take kindly to strangers trolling; someone would have said there is a stranger in our mist.

My Attorney told me there was about a 95% chance that I had been followed. Obviously, They found nothing but I will say if they did film/follow me, They were damn good.

How would you have filmed me living in the environment I live in?

Ya quite a few people faking it but most of the time it's people exaggerating or malingering. Believe or not my last few years I worked a lot of cops and firemen. Here in California they get paid well and can get big medical retirements. Most info comes from employee friends who see the claimant out and about engaged in activity they should not be doing. You would be amazed how quick an employee "friend" will turn on you. They will pass on info to employer then carrier, and so on. Lock that Facebook Page, that's an easy source of info. Yes there's a lot of fraud and in turn it hurts all of you who have legitimate claims but when I got cases to work I didn't know if they were legit or not. I would figure it out during the case but not knowing is what got to me. I hated working a case knowing claimant was truly injured. Adjusters don't care if they have it out for the claimant.
 
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