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RE: helthcare - stiffnecked - 10-20-2009 09:16 PM
Cycler Wrote:Stiff,
You really aren't paying attention and as a result your prejudice is showing. It is your own neighbors, your own family your own fellow church members who ARE or WERE hard working upstanding citizens with not a blemish to their name who are being gutted by the loss of employee sponsored health benefits and being bankrupted over their or parents medical bills, not the non-working welfare moms .
Do you really think all this fuss would be directed at those already cared for under existing federal health benefits programs ( Medicaid ) ? They don't have the political clout to be counted. You really have entirely missed the whole point of the national debate I'm afraid.
I have missed none of the debate. Not one sentence. You've simply been sucking in everything the Obama administration has said as gospel truth. I am under no such delusion.
RE: helthcare - Bad Boy Bad Boy - 10-20-2009 09:18 PM
President Roosevelt asks Congress for "economic bill of rights," including right to adequate medical care. President Truman offers national health program plan, proposing a single system that would include all of American society
I am only showing the facts that here in 2009, it isn't the first time this has ever came to the table. I only listed 2 of them, there were many more times also. But, when my childern go to work, and their employer states they aren't offering healthcare as a benefit anymore because they can't afford it anymore, then maybe we shall call Houston, and say we got a problem...
But, remember I don't wish this on anyones childern going to labor for the fruit of their own future. But, it is time to understand, as each day passes, more and more employers are letting healthcare benefits go. It's not an issue of what you, me, or anyone Labored for anymore, we are loosing benefits, at an all time alarming rate now, tomorrow, next week, next month, next year. It isn't going to stop....
RE: helthcare - Cycler - 10-20-2009 09:38 PM
hardly my friend. You assume too much and no nothing of what I know or find compelling.
But as I said earlier, It really doesn't matter how much you argue about it here as it will not be here these matters are decided.
stiffnecked Wrote:Cycler Wrote:Stiff,
You really aren't paying attention and as a result your prejudice is showing. It is your own neighbors, your own family your own fellow church members who ARE or WERE hard working upstanding citizens with not a blemish to their name who are being gutted by the loss of employee sponsored health benefits and being bankrupted over their or parents medical bills, not the non-working welfare moms .
Do you really think all this fuss would be directed at those already cared for under existing federal health benefits programs ( Medicaid ) ? They don't have the political clout to be counted. You really have entirely missed the whole point of the national debate I'm afraid.
I have missed none of the debate. Not one sentence. You've simply been sucking in everything the Obama administration has said as gospel truth. I am under no such delusion.
RE: helthcare - admin - 10-20-2009 11:06 PM
The plain fact is that the people who are directly voting on this "bill" have not read it, and don't know what is in it. The rush is on to pass something, and the (currently) 1500 pages simply will not be viewed by most who vote for it. In this era of transparencly we truely have no idea what is actually coming.
To put a personal perspective on this, I have health insurance that by no means should be considered a "Cadillac Plan" ($2000 deductible). However, one figure I picked up in the news puts me dangerously close to the 40% penalty tax that is proposed to be levied on such plans. Now, one can delude themselves with the argument that it is the insurer that will be taxed, but we all know who will pick up the cost. I can not afford, and my company can not afford a 40% hike in our insurance costs. I hope someone can explain to me how health care reform designed to insure the uninsured could cause me to lose the coverage I currently have.
We know that Congress will not be on whatever plan they craft for the rest of us. Will they be taxed on their "Rolls Royce" plan? I sincerely doubt it.
I also do not understand how proponents can point to Medicare as a model program, when the administration itself is proposing to cut $500 BILLION in "waste and fraud" from that program to help fund this new (as yet undefined) program.
Most of my relatives are Canadian, and several of them have come to the states for treatments unavailable to them in a timely manner at home. Canada has lost almost 5,000 physicians in the last decade. The reason most cited for departing? Lack of facilities and equipment.
You can kid yourself and believe that what is happening is not intended to eventually create a single payer system, but there are videos of our President saying that that result is the ideal option and ultimate goal. I simply do not agree.
RE: helthcare - jayne - 10-20-2009 11:27 PM
and you are not alone many do not agree the hope was he could ram it thru while the rose colored glasses were still on.....reality took them off
RE: helthcare - Wink - 10-20-2009 11:33 PM
admin Wrote:The plain fact is that the people who are directly voting on this "bill" have not read it, and don't know what is in it. The rush is on to pass something, and the (currently) 1500 pages simply will not be viewed by most who vote for it. In this era of transparencly we truely have no idea what is actually coming.
To put a personal perspective on this, I have health insurance that by no means should be considered a "Cadillac Plan" ($2000 deductible). However, one figure I picked up in the news puts me dangerously close to the 40% penalty tax that is proposed to be levied on such plans. Now, one can delude themselves with the argument that it is the insurer that will be taxed, but we all know who will pick up the cost. I can not afford, and my company can not afford a 40% hike in our insurance costs. I hope someone can explain to me how health care reform designed to insure the uninsured could cause me to lose the coverage I currently have.
We know that Congress will not be on whatever plan they craft for the rest of us. Will they be taxed on their "Rolls Royce" plan? I sincerely doubt it.
I also do not understand how proponents can point to Medicare as a model program, when the administration itself is proposing to cut $500 BILLION in "waste and fraud" from that program to help fund this new (as yet undefined) program.
Most of my relatives are Canadian, and several of them have come to the states for treatments unavailable to them in a timely manner at home. Canada has lost almost 5,000 physicians in the last decade. The reason most cited for departing? Lack of facilities and equipment.
You can kid yourself and believe that what is happening is not intended to eventually create a single payer system, but there are videos of our President saying that that result is the ideal option and ultimate goal. I simply do not agree.
Interesting piece out today, admin: A tad similar to what I unarticulated about a couple days ago.
http://920wgka.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelTanner/2009/10/20/cognitive_dissonance_on_health_care_reform Interesting comments, also.
RE: helthcare - Wink - 10-20-2009 11:52 PM
![[Image: zzzOBAMASHEALTHCAREINANUTSHELL.gif?t=1256098408]](http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/waswink/zzzOBAMASHEALTHCAREINANUTSHELL.gif?t=1256098408)
RE: helthcare - Cycler - 10-21-2009 08:17 AM
And plenty of folks agree with you.
admin Wrote:You can kid yourself and believe that what is happening is not intended to eventually create a single payer system, but there are videos of our President saying that that result is the ideal option and ultimate goal. I simply do not agree.
RE: helthcare - capricorn - 10-21-2009 11:05 AM
First I have to say I am leary of even posting on this thread again. One of my reasons is that people who have voted for Obama have been called idiots for following a Charismatic leader. I am offended by that because I am not an idiot nor do I see the President as the Anti-Christ as I know some religions do. That being said I have some questions. I am also one of those people who "Doesn't believe half of what I hear and less of what I see" Is that the way the saying goes? So I don't fall for all the crap on TV and in the papers. Everyone of you has a valid point to some degree. I am not for or against any of you.
First I read alot here about medicare cuts. Can anyone be specific? I am curious because I will be covered by medicare next Oct and my husband is covered now. Nowhere have I read anything about "specific " cuts. If one of them is the free gym memberships I have no problem with that. I would rather have my health insurance for medical bills that I can't afford than to be able to go work out for free. Keep in mind although Bill and I are in our 50's we are considered to be seniors so this matters greatly to me.
My youngest daughter has a great job (Thank God) but lousy health insurance. Sometimes it's cheaper for her to pay out of pocket. No where in this thread have I ever expressed an interest in her having free health insurance whether from her employer or Uncle Sam so I'm not sure why it keeps being said that everyone who agrees with our present government feels they are entitled to the governement taking care of their health insurance for free.
My oldest daughter's husband got laid off a while ago. They have two children. They applied for Food stamps and medical insurance. They were granted both but my som-in-law had to check in monthly to let them know if he was working at all and if so how much he made. He was finally called back to his union and has just about enough hours in to get health benefits for the whole family. I couldn't possibly resent this family for getting temporary (that's the key word) when they were down and out.
As you can see my family has a few different situations. My husband has government run, my daughter's family had governement run. My other daughter has lousy employee covered insurance I am the only one on my own and I pay $500 a month with lots of co-pays. In my family government run health benefits are obviously better and cover more. I spend over $1000 a month on preiums and co-pays. How many retired people can handle that and their bills?
All I want is competition. I am stuck with one provider who rapes people in premiums and it's getting worse. I would happily pay for a public plan. If I could get my insurance for $200 less wouldn't anyone be thrilled. What is so wrong with that. I'm not asking for it for free because I don't believe it should be. Everyone needs to pay their fair share but we need to have choices to make good decisions. Right now I have no choices.
This thread is so important . I really hope it turns back to what would and would not be good for health insurance reform and not a repulican/democrat thread.
Thank you for reading.
RE: helthcare - Cycler - 10-21-2009 11:35 AM
There you again Cap, injecting real world facts into the argument.
...the nerve.......
capricorn Wrote:First I have to say I am leary of even posting on this thread again.
Thank you for reading.