08-03-2009, 11:08 PM
Ok, this is a very helpful forum and I would like to thank the people who take the time to post. I get a sense that I have a question that could be Pandora's Box here, but I want to know...sorry in advance if this question is a bit too much.
Why can't I read occupational class codes for myself?
I have asked a couple agents I have hired over the years being in business with and without a business partner and while based in different states, as well as agents I was hoping to hire, about some of the tasks my business does in environmental contracting. Their responses all too frequently consist of "I don't know if there is a class code for that." Recently I was turned down twice on coverage for a job I was bidding on "due to the unique nature of the business" (meanwhile my competitors will just do it without insurance, another thread topic some other night). Most of insurance people I have met, with some exceptions, are more familiar with a golf course than a jobsite; it can be like talking to a blind man about the exhibits in the Louvre. But it's not their fault that not every business fits neatly into a class code just because the vast majority of businesses actually do. When I finally decided to look into these questions on my own using the power of the internet, I discovered that I basically couldn't. The keepers of the codes consider them proprietary business information. You can find hints of them once you know one code because they are mentioned in passing in documents posted on the internet, but you can't read the full description, or see a list of all of them. Maybe a task I am discussing is in one of them, or is very, very similar....I think I would have a better handle on that than people who don't work in my profession.
So do I have this right? Is this true in all 50 states? It just doesn't seem right in an open society that you can't know this information for yourself, you just have to take the carrier's word that you are in this code and that is that. I know, I am free to go to another carrier...but that is not so simple. And I don't need the loss statistics (truly proprietary information, I agree), just the descriptions of the work performed in a code.
And what am I going to do with the codes - show them to the Chinese? If you don't have any choice but to have your business as a whole or each employee placed in one of these codes, why are they secret? It's not like there is some other, competing system of codes desperate to read these descriptions. It seems to me more like a system to keep you tied to an agent instead of shopping for insurance on your own. I know there are insurance agents reading this, sorry if that touched a nerve, but that is how things look to me. I kind of hope I am wrong about this. For most people, including myself, an insurance agent is a wonderful aid, because insurance can be such a MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) topic. Yes, I know, I could find another agent. But when you are talking about things not already covered in an obvious class code, a different agent isn't going to help much.
Why can't I read occupational class codes for myself?
I have asked a couple agents I have hired over the years being in business with and without a business partner and while based in different states, as well as agents I was hoping to hire, about some of the tasks my business does in environmental contracting. Their responses all too frequently consist of "I don't know if there is a class code for that." Recently I was turned down twice on coverage for a job I was bidding on "due to the unique nature of the business" (meanwhile my competitors will just do it without insurance, another thread topic some other night). Most of insurance people I have met, with some exceptions, are more familiar with a golf course than a jobsite; it can be like talking to a blind man about the exhibits in the Louvre. But it's not their fault that not every business fits neatly into a class code just because the vast majority of businesses actually do. When I finally decided to look into these questions on my own using the power of the internet, I discovered that I basically couldn't. The keepers of the codes consider them proprietary business information. You can find hints of them once you know one code because they are mentioned in passing in documents posted on the internet, but you can't read the full description, or see a list of all of them. Maybe a task I am discussing is in one of them, or is very, very similar....I think I would have a better handle on that than people who don't work in my profession.
So do I have this right? Is this true in all 50 states? It just doesn't seem right in an open society that you can't know this information for yourself, you just have to take the carrier's word that you are in this code and that is that. I know, I am free to go to another carrier...but that is not so simple. And I don't need the loss statistics (truly proprietary information, I agree), just the descriptions of the work performed in a code.
And what am I going to do with the codes - show them to the Chinese? If you don't have any choice but to have your business as a whole or each employee placed in one of these codes, why are they secret? It's not like there is some other, competing system of codes desperate to read these descriptions. It seems to me more like a system to keep you tied to an agent instead of shopping for insurance on your own. I know there are insurance agents reading this, sorry if that touched a nerve, but that is how things look to me. I kind of hope I am wrong about this. For most people, including myself, an insurance agent is a wonderful aid, because insurance can be such a MEGO (My Eyes Glaze Over) topic. Yes, I know, I could find another agent. But when you are talking about things not already covered in an obvious class code, a different agent isn't going to help much.